The following information was posted by Chris Scally in the JFK
Assassination Forum thread I linked to earlier:
(QUOTE)
With reference to the McIntire photo that you posted, showing the
three motorcycles ahead of Chief Curry and the limousine after they
had passed to the west of the Triple Underpass - I believe these three
officers are lead motorcyclists L.E. Grey (or Gray), W.G. Lumpkin and
Sgt. Ellis. Also, remember that while this McIntire photo was taken
west of the Underpass, but they still had to pass under Stemmons
before they swung right, and up the on-ramp onto the Freeway itself.
I am also convinced that Chaney did not catch up to Curry until they
were on the Stemmons freeway on-ramp, for the following reasons:
- DPD Officer Earle Brown, on the railway overpass above Stemmons,
told Earl Golz in March 1980 that he saw the limo and 4 other cars
stop on the Stemmons on-ramp for at least 30 secs. Brown later
repeated his story for Gary Mack;
- Officer Doug Jackson told Mack in 1981 that he and Chaney raced
after lead car, caught up with it after about 30 secs, and Chaney
spoke through window to Curry;
- Curry told another researcher (whose name I cannot recall at this
moment) in 1979 that Chaney caught up with him as they began climbing
the Stemmons on-ramp;
- Curry told Mack that he slowed down in order to find out if anyone
had been hit, as he was unaware that anyone had been hit until Chaney
told him. He also said he then had to tell the limousine driver,
Secret Service agent Bill Greer, how to get to Parkland Hospital,
before issuing “Go to hospital” order;
- Curry told the Warren Commission that he did not transmit on Channel
2 until after he spoke to Motorcycle Officer Jim Chaney;
- DPD Officer Courson said lead car had slowed sufficiently for him to
catch it on the Stemmons access road, and Courson was 100-120 feet
behind McLain in the motorcade, and McLain was himself about 140 feet
behind the Presidential limo when the shots were fired. (Courson was
appprox. 80 yds behind JFK at Z-313);
- Chaney is in the extreme left edge of the Daniel film (in the inter-
sprocket images, I believe) , and in the Mel McIntire photo - in both
cases, he hasn't yet caught up with Curry.
(UNQUOTE)
Here's the link again:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1653.12.html
Post by Willy GingersnapsI didn't know Curry said anything about meeting Chaney. I'll have to look into that. The only one of the three cops in the McIntyre who could be Chaney, I thought, was the one wearing sunglasses, since Chaney is wearing them in the Altgens. But that cop has seargent stripes and Chaney doesn't. It seems clear to me that Chaney's 1975 interview document is an attempt by somebody to get the story "straight," in a dishonest way.
Post by curtjester1Post by Willy GingersnapsThere's only one motorcycle cop in the Daniel film, that I can see, and that must be the guy who was riding beside Hargis. The three cops in the McIntyre film are none of them Chaney. If, as Chaney said, he immediately went to Curry's car and was told to take them to the hospital, then he must have already passed those three cops in the McIntyre. A motorcycle could easily out-accelerate either car.
There is only one cop, and that is Martin, but others have alluded to
that there is Chaney in the ghost area. At this point in time, I
think you are right about the three in the McIntryre photo. I don't
know where I read that, and I have just gone through that whole thread
and no one has indicated that is Chaney. What they are indicating
that Chaney is still away's back there; still way behind the limo/lead
car. I don't know how they can tell that either. The thread started
out on topic, got spread to black dog man, and even ended with
headshot stuff, but before that, the interest to me was they were
debating where Chaney got caught off by the limo via testimony vs.
pics to Jack White stating he was going to post a pic that showed
Chaney passing the limo. That's where it ended! So, there is
testimony that has Curry talking about shots going to talking to
Chaney (which shows alteration) to Curry stating years later that the
meeting came on the Stemmons onramp. So far, I am in the middle, and
need more info to make up my mind. I don't think this issue points
one way or the other about Z film alteration, because both views can
be acceptable and still have the film altered. The only thing is that
if Chaney did really speed up as inferred, McIntyre would have to be
looked at as altered as well, as there should be (if Chaney met Curry
at the Triple Underpass) a Chaney somewhere in his shot coming up to
the three motorcyclists, but he isn't.
CJ
Post by Willy GingersnapsPost by curtjester1Post by Mark Ulrik(TOP POST)
In the Nix film, all four motorcycle cops escorting the limo are in
clear view at the time of the head shot. Chaney and Hargis are the
ones that seem to come to a complete stop. From what Chaney told a
researcher in the early 70s (for transcript of taped interview, see
Pat Speer's website), he was stationary long enough to see Hargis
subsequently dismount his bike and run across the street in front of
him. In the McIntyre photo, Chaney can be seen emerging from the
underpass, well behind Curry (and JFK). He only caught up when the
cars stopped on the on-ramp onto Stemmons.
I haven't re-read the thread I posted from EF, but I thought it had
that the Daniels film showed Chaney and Co. far back still...and the
McIntyre photo where the cops are ahead and roundin' the bend, has
Chaney as one of the riders.
CJ
Post by Mark UlrikPost by Willy GingersnapsAlso, the way Chaney tells it in the ABC interview, JFK was not hit by the first shot, since Chaney says that JFK also looked over to his left. JFK does look to his left, apparently just before a shot where there are some missing Zapruder frames. So perhaps that makes Chaney's "struck in the face" shot the first shot that hit, the one that made the hole in his throat, which officially entered his back and exited his throat. If he then sped ahead to tell Curry, he might not have heard the head shot because of his motorcycle noise, and that would be the 4th shot under this scenario. I always find the Chaney waters too muddy to be conclusive. And where the hell is he, anyway? After Altgens6 he doesn't seem to be in any photography.
I seem to have misidentified the cop in this picture, Evidence suggests that it is Sgt. Bellah, not James Chaney.https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SdvD4LSFC-c/UbcMITY3GEI/AAAAAAAABf...is correct, I don't see why Chaney would have gone ahead to talk to Curry after the limo had passed Curry. It would be obviously unnecessary at that point.
Post by Mark UlrikPost by Willy GingersnapsChaney also said that after JFK was shot that he rode ahead of the limo to tell Chief Curry in the lead car. No photographic evidence of this has survived, so far as I can determine, but why would he say this if it weren't true? He said this on day 1.
Perhaps because it happened outside Dealey Plaza?
I don't think that's possible. Curry's car can be seen in the Zapruder film under the bridge as the speeding JFK limo approaches it, about to overtake it. And in this photo,https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SdvD4LSFC-c/UbcMITY3GEI/AAAAAAAABf..., Chaney can be seen way out in front of the limo as it comes from the other side of the bridge. Chaney said he told curry and that Curry told him to get them to a hos[ital, and in this photo Chaney, who is with two other motorcycle cops cropped out here, is well on his way. I don't think all of that could have happened unless everybody, including the limo, had stopped under the bridge.
Post by Mark UlrikPost by Willy GingersnapsPost by Willy GingersnapsYou make a good point, but in the Altgens photo Chaney is looking slightly backwards, and apparently at JFK. I am not convinced on this point, but if he is looking back, or even evenly beside himself, at JFK, that would settle it, and the Zapruder film question.
Post by Mark UlrikOne of our resident lunatics (Ben Holmes) has been floating a theory
about the position of motorcycle policeman James Chaney relative to
Chaney and JFK were side by side. Evidence for: Ben's gut feeling.
Evidence against: other photos and films (most notably the Zapruder
film) showing no motorcycles alongside the presidential limo; Chaney's
own words.
Ben's problem (apart from seeing conspiracies everywhere) is
predicated on his inability to properly interpret photos. In
particular, he underestimates (or doesn't understand) the
foreshortening effect of the telephoto lens that Altgens was using. I
was reminded of this when I recently came across a pair of photos
(unrelated to the assassination) that illustrates how deceptive
perspective and different types of lenses can be. Here's a collage
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2m5z6lk.jpg
Left (L) - Chaney portion of Altgens 6 photo.
Upper right (UR) - Paparazzi shot of lovely Sinitta having her picture
taken by a waitress.
Lower right (LR) - Actual picture taken by waitress.
If you showed UR to someone like Ben, he'd tell you that Sinitta was
all but touching the table (pointed out with red arrow). LR, however,
reveals considerable space between them. Also notice how differently
the door in the background (green arrow) appears in the two photos.
Food for thought for Ben and his faithful acolyte?
