Discussion:
Pictures of the Paines: The record is filled with hints that they
(too old to reply)
Raymond
2012-01-25 03:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Pictures of the Paines

There is no single piece of evidence directly tying Ruth or Michael
Paine to involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is
important to always bear that in mind.

But there are innumerable indicators throughout the Warren Commission
literature suggesting Ruth and Michael Paine might not be the
innocents they seemed. And as recently as the thirtieth anniversary of
the assassination, Michael Paine was seen on CBS; what he said then
runs counter to what he told the Warren Commission in 1964. All of
this has, quite naturally, given rise to suspicion and speculation of
a possible role played by the Paines in the assassination drama.

It may well be that the Paines were exactly what they appeared to be:
a young Dallas-area couple who chanced to befriend the man later
accused of murdering President Kennedy. Indeed, they have vociferous
defenders to this day, staunch advocates of the official version of
events who insist Ruth and Michael Paine have been slandered by
conspiracy-minded, amateur Sherlocks. It is not the intent of this
article to pass judgement on the Paines--only to examine the known
record and what it says about them.

Officially, the Paines met Lee and Marina Oswald early in 1963. Ruth
Paine told the Warren Commission that she met them at a dinner party
not attended by her husband: "That was on the 22d of February looking
back at my calendar." There will be more on Ruth Paine's calendar a
little later in this article.

It is possible that Ruth Paine expressed interest in the Oswalds much
earlier than 1963. According to an endnote in James DiEugenio's
Destiny Betrayed, "...researcher Michael Levy has unearthed a Navy
Department document which reports that Ruth Paine was requesting
information about the family of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1957."[1] It
appears this is an area requiring additional research.

Ruth Paine's father had worked for the Agency for International
Development, an organization with "extensive" ties to the CIA,
according to researcher Philip Melanson. [1.1] Michael Paine's brother
also worked for AID. George DeMohrenschildt, alleged to have been
Oswald's intelligence "handler," also once worked for AID. [1.2]

In any case, in the months leading up to the assassination Marina
Oswald was living with Ruth Paine in the Paine home in suburban
Dallas. Like Marina and Lee, Ruth and Michael were experiencing
marital problems, and they had separated. Returning from a long trip
east in September, Ruth Paine swung by New Orleans, where the Oswalds
had lived that summer. She picked Marina up and took her home to live
with her. Michael Paine was at this time living in an apartment in
Grand Prairie, another Dallas suburb.

When Lee himself showed up in Dallas in October, Ruth Paine was
indirectly responsible for him getting a job at the Texas School Book
Depository, where of course the Warren Commission concluded all the
shots fired at the motorcade originated. She knew he was looking for
work, and heard of an opening at the Depository: "I looked up the
number in the book, and dialed it, and was told I would need to speak
to Mr. Truly, who was at the warehouse...I talked with him...and I
said I know of a young man whose wife was staying in my house, the
wife was expecting a child..."[2] Oswald got the job, of course, and a
rendezvous with destiny.
* * *
The Colleague
Cont'd
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/04th_Issue/painepix.html

One must be cautious not to jump to any conclusions when considering
the evidence that reflects poorly on Ruth and Michael Paine. There is
nothing that proves indisputably that they were involved in setting
Oswald up as the fall guy in a plot to assassinate John F. Kennedy.
But the record is filled with hints that they were not the innocent
bystanders they appeared to be--hints that were apparently ignored by
the Warren Commission, that body ostensibly empowered to investigate
everything and overlook nothing, whose only client was truth.

In the case of the Paines, as in so many other aspects of the JFK
investigation, we are confronted with strange testimony that was never
adequately explained or followed up. With all of the loose ends, which
will probably never be tied together, the Warren Commission leaves us
a legacy of doubt and shame.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1995 by John Kelin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond
2012-01-25 23:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond
Pictures of the Paines
There is no single piece of evidence directly tying Ruth or Michael
Paine to involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is
important to always bear that in mind.
But there are innumerable indicators throughout the Warren Commission
literature suggesting Ruth and Michael Paine might not be the
innocents they seemed. And as recently as the thirtieth anniversary of
the assassination, Michael Paine was seen on CBS; what he said then
runs counter to what he told the Warren Commission in 1964. All of
this has, quite naturally, given rise to suspicion and speculation of
a possible role played by the Paines in the assassination drama.
a young Dallas-area couple who chanced to befriend the man later
accused of murdering President Kennedy. Indeed, they have vociferous
defenders to this day, staunch advocates of the official version of
events who insist Ruth and Michael Paine have been slandered by
conspiracy-minded, amateur Sherlocks. It is not the intent of this
article to pass judgement on the Paines--only to examine the known
record and what it says about them.
Officially, the Paines met Lee and Marina Oswald early in 1963. Ruth
Paine told the Warren Commission that she met them at a dinner party
not attended by her husband: "That was on the 22d of February looking
back at my calendar." There will be more on Ruth Paine's calendar a
little later in this article.
It is possible that Ruth Paine expressed interest in the Oswalds much
earlier than 1963. According to an endnote in James DiEugenio's
Destiny Betrayed, "...researcher Michael Levy has unearthed a Navy
Department document which reports that Ruth Paine was requesting
information about the family of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1957."[1] It
appears this is an area requiring additional research.
Ruth Paine's father had worked for the Agency for International
Development, an organization with "extensive" ties to the CIA,
according to researcher Philip Melanson. [1.1] Michael Paine's brother
also worked for AID. George DeMohrenschildt, alleged to have been
Oswald's intelligence "handler," also once worked for AID. [1.2]
In any case, in the months leading up to the assassination Marina
Oswald was living with Ruth Paine in the Paine home in suburban
Dallas. Like Marina and Lee, Ruth and Michael were experiencing
marital problems, and they had separated. Returning from a long trip
east in September, Ruth Paine swung by New Orleans, where the Oswalds
had lived that summer. She picked Marina up and took her home to live
with her. Michael Paine was at this time living in an apartment in
Grand Prairie, another Dallas suburb.
When Lee himself showed up in Dallas in October, Ruth Paine was
indirectly responsible for him getting a job at the Texas School Book
Depository, where of course the Warren Commission concluded all the
shots fired at the motorcade originated. She knew he was looking for
work, and heard of an opening at the Depository: "I looked up the
number in the book, and dialed it, and was told I would need to speak
to Mr. Truly, who was at the warehouse...I talked with him...and I
said I know of a young man whose wife was staying in my house, the
wife was expecting a child..."[2] Oswald got the job, of course, and a
rendezvous with destiny.
* * *
The Colleague
Cont'dhttp://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/04th_Issue/painepix.html
One must be cautious not to jump to any conclusions when considering
the evidence that reflects poorly on Ruth and Michael Paine. There is
nothing that proves indisputably that they were involved in setting
Oswald up as the fall guy in a plot to assassinate John F. Kennedy.
But the record is filled with hints that they were not the innocent
bystanders they appeared to be--hints that were apparently ignored by
the Warren Commission, that body ostensibly empowered to investigate
everything and overlook nothing, whose only client was truth.
In the case of the Paines, as in so many other aspects of the JFK
investigation, we are confronted with strange testimony that was never
adequately explained or followed up. With all of the loose ends, which
will probably never be tied together, the Warren Commission leaves us
a legacy of doubt and shame.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1995 by John Kelin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Liars need to have good memories."

Even though Michael Paine now says that he saw the backyard photo with
the rifle when he picked up Oswald to take him home to dinner one
night. So, if that is true, he did know Oswald had a rifle and he
kept it and moved it around not only the garage, but his wife drove it
across state lines....."

Not quite right. Mike lied about the picture he saw when he went to
pick Lee Up.

I think poor Mike Paine is confused about many things. On Friday
evening, November 19, 1993, CBS aired a special on the JFK coup. The
show was:CBS REPORTS:WHO KILLED JFK-THE FINAL CHAPTER. The narrator
was Dan Rather, and one of the people interviewed for the special was
Michael Paine.

Mike related how he met LHO for the first time.He told CBS:

" I went one afternoon to pick him up; went upstairs to pick him up.
The first thing he did, practically, was to pick up the photograph of
himself - 8 X 1 O- holding his rifle and some papers. I was a little
startled. I suppose he was looking for a big revolution-that he'd join
a big revolution - that he'd join a big revolution with his gun. He
thought that the only way that change would come about was through
violence." This is the only time that Mike ever suggested that he knew
that LHO owned a gun.
He was consistent in testifying that he never had any idea that Lee
owned a rifle.

Read his testimony about that visit to pick up Lee. A different
story:

Mr. Liebeler.
When did you meet Lee Oswald?
Mr. Paine.
I met him sometime in the spring of 1963.
Mr. Dulles.
This is Oswald?
Mr. Liebeler.
Yes; Lee Oswald.
Mr. Paine.
We were invited to a party, Ruth and I were invited to a party, given
by Everett Glover. I had a cold and wasn't able to go. Ruth went at
that time and subsequently went once or twice to see Marina. And she
invited Marina and Lee to our house for dinner, and here the date that
comes to mind is April 10.
Mr. Dulles.
Where was Marina staying at this time?
Mr. Paine.
Berry Street.
Mr. Dulles.
Berry Street in Dallas.
Mr. Liebeler.
Berry Street or would it be Neely Street?
Mr. Paine.
Neely Street. So this was the first time I saw them. I had to go over,
he didn't drive a car and I had to go over, and pick him up in my car
and bring him back to the house. So I went over to Neely Street and
saw them. Marina took about half an hour to pack all the things for
Junie. Meanwhile I was talking to Lee at their house there.
Mr. Liebeler.
Would you tell us about that conversation?
Mr. Paine.
I asked him what he was doing, his job, and he showed me a picture on
the wall, which was a piece of newspaper, I think--that is beside the
point. I asked him about Russia, what he liked about.
Mr. Dulles.
Could we get that picture?
Mr. Paine.
I think it was beside the point. It was a piece of newspaper showing a
fashion ad, I think. I think his job was--
Mr. Dulles.
Nothing to do with politics at all, to do with his job. I see.
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol2/page393.php

" Liars need to have good memories."
--- Algernon Sidney


More confusion from the Hen pecked husbamd of the Dragon Lady:

When MIke testified about his examination of the "rustic" blanket in
his garage , he told Liebeler that he thought that the
blanket contained metal camping poles.He was asked if he had the
impression that there may have been any paper inside the blanket. Mike
said:" No; I would have to say no. I didn't have that impression,
nothing crinkled, no sound."Liebeler asked: "Was there any indication
by a crinkling or otherwise that there might be paper wrapped inside
the blanket?"

Mike: "That is right."
Paine's vague answer, "That is right." did not satisfy Liebeler who
returned to the blanket and how it was wrapped. Mike, in one of those
moments of forgetfulness that we considered earlier said, " I can't
remember how it was wrapped at this end because I could grab my hand
around the PAPER wheras this end, I think it was folded over.
" Vol. IX, p. 439.

Most folks who do a thorough job of researching believe that LHO
did not have to snitch paper from the TSBD to carry his gun to work on
Friday morning.

Lee's MC had been wrapped in paper and placed in the "rustic" blanket
in late September in New Orleans, and transported by Ruth Paine and
Marina Oswald to Texas and the floor of the Paine's garage where it
was observed and maintained by the Paines until it was removed from
the blanket probably after LHO left for work with a package of Ruth's
curtain rods that Mike had wrapped in paper himself.

In Priscilla Johnson McMillian's book Marina and Lee, the author
describes the loading of Ruth's station wagon for the trip to Irving:
"What she (Ruth) did not know was that among the items was almost
certainly his rifle, WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER and a blanket and tied up
in heavy string."

And more:"... When she was certain Ruth could not see her she crept
into the garage to the place where Lee kept the rifle WRAPPED IN PAPER
inside the heavy blanket, a green and brown wool blanket of East
German make that she had bought in Russia."

Hell, we all forget, so let's give Mike and Ruth some slack.

I always have trouble remembering three things: faces, names, and -- I
can't remember what the third thing is.
--- Fred A. Allen (1894-1956) American comedian
Sam McClung
2012-01-26 14:08:56 UTC
Permalink
hearsay from mike paine vs. unsigned testimony produced by the warren
kkkomission for mike paine



"Oh, we got both kinds. We got country and western."
from the blues brothers movie
John McAdams
2012-01-28 15:46:22 UTC
Permalink
You folks really don't need any evidence when you smear people, do
you?

The kind of "logic" we see from conspiracists is akin to the worst of
Joe McCarthy or the John Birch Society.
Post by Raymond
Pictures of the Paines
There is no single piece of evidence directly tying Ruth or Michael
Paine to involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is
important to always bear that in mind.
But there are innumerable indicators throughout the Warren Commission
literature suggesting Ruth and Michael Paine might not be the
innocents they seemed. And as recently as the thirtieth anniversary of
the assassination, Michael Paine was seen on CBS; what he said then
runs counter to what he told the Warren Commission in 1964. All of
this has, quite naturally, given rise to suspicion and speculation of
a possible role played by the Paines in the assassination drama.
a young Dallas-area couple who chanced to befriend the man later
accused of murdering President Kennedy. Indeed, they have vociferous
defenders to this day, staunch advocates of the official version of
events who insist Ruth and Michael Paine have been slandered by
conspiracy-minded, amateur Sherlocks. It is not the intent of this
article to pass judgement on the Paines--only to examine the known
record and what it says about them.
Officially, the Paines met Lee and Marina Oswald early in 1963. Ruth
Paine told the Warren Commission that she met them at a dinner party
not attended by her husband: "That was on the 22d of February looking
back at my calendar." There will be more on Ruth Paine's calendar a
little later in this article.
It is possible that Ruth Paine expressed interest in the Oswalds much
earlier than 1963. According to an endnote in James DiEugenio's
Destiny Betrayed, "...researcher Michael Levy has unearthed a Navy
Department document which reports that Ruth Paine was requesting
information about the family of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1957."[1] It
appears this is an area requiring additional research.
Ruth Paine's father had worked for the Agency for International
Development, an organization with "extensive" ties to the CIA,
according to researcher Philip Melanson. [1.1] Michael Paine's brother
also worked for AID. George DeMohrenschildt, alleged to have been
Oswald's intelligence "handler," also once worked for AID. [1.2]
In any case, in the months leading up to the assassination Marina
Oswald was living with Ruth Paine in the Paine home in suburban
Dallas. Like Marina and Lee, Ruth and Michael were experiencing
marital problems, and they had separated. Returning from a long trip
east in September, Ruth Paine swung by New Orleans, where the Oswalds
had lived that summer. She picked Marina up and took her home to live
with her. Michael Paine was at this time living in an apartment in
Grand Prairie, another Dallas suburb.
When Lee himself showed up in Dallas in October, Ruth Paine was
indirectly responsible for him getting a job at the Texas School Book
Depository, where of course the Warren Commission concluded all the
shots fired at the motorcade originated. She knew he was looking for
work, and heard of an opening at the Depository: "I looked up the
number in the book, and dialed it, and was told I would need to speak
to Mr. Truly, who was at the warehouse...I talked with him...and I
said I know of a young man whose wife was staying in my house, the
wife was expecting a child..."[2] Oswald got the job, of course, and a
rendezvous with destiny.
* * *
The Colleague
Cont'd
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/04th_Issue/painepix.html
One must be cautious not to jump to any conclusions when considering
the evidence that reflects poorly on Ruth and Michael Paine. There is
nothing that proves indisputably that they were involved in setting
Oswald up as the fall guy in a plot to assassinate John F. Kennedy.
But the record is filled with hints that they were not the innocent
bystanders they appeared to be--hints that were apparently ignored by
the Warren Commission, that body ostensibly empowered to investigate
everything and overlook nothing, whose only client was truth.
In the case of the Paines, as in so many other aspects of the JFK
investigation, we are confronted with strange testimony that was never
adequately explained or followed up. With all of the loose ends, which
will probably never be tied together, the Warren Commission leaves us
a legacy of doubt and shame.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1995 by John Kelin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
l***@webtv.net
2012-01-28 19:17:20 UTC
Permalink
And McAdams talks about smearing people..like you smear Prouty, Stone,
Groden etc...Col. Fletcher Prouty was the liason between the Pentagon
and The CIA, and had an impeccable miltary record, and was on the board
of directors of several banks, yet you call him a crackpot...Laz
aeffects
2012-01-30 19:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@webtv.net
And McAdams talks about smearing people..like you smear Prouty, Stone,
Groden etc...Col. Fletcher Prouty was the liason between the Pentagon
and The CIA, and had an impeccable miltary record, and was on the board
of directors of several banks, yet you call him a crackpot...Laz
some have not forgot what .john mcadams was wrote up for in that
Marquette paper some years back....

http://www.prouty.org/mcadams/

Raymond
2012-01-30 15:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McAdams
You folks really don't need any evidence when you smear people, do
you?
The kind of "logic" we see from conspiracists is akin to the worst of
Joe McCarthy or the John Birch Society.
Post by Raymond
Pictures of the Paines
There is no single piece of evidence directly tying Ruth or Michael
Paine to involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is
important to always bear that in mind.
But there are innumerable indicators throughout the Warren Commission
literature suggesting Ruth and Michael Paine might not be the
innocents they seemed. And as recently as the thirtieth anniversary of
the assassination, Michael Paine was seen on CBS; what he said then
runs counter to what he told the Warren Commission in 1964. All of
this has, quite naturally, given rise to suspicion and speculation of
a possible role played by the Paines in the assassination drama.
a young Dallas-area couple who chanced to befriend the man later
accused of murdering President Kennedy. Indeed, they have vociferous
defenders to this day, staunch advocates of the official version of
events who insist Ruth and Michael Paine have been slandered by
conspiracy-minded, amateur Sherlocks. It is not the intent of this
article to pass judgement on the Paines--only to examine the known
record and what it says about them.
Officially, the Paines met Lee and Marina Oswald early in 1963. Ruth
Paine told the Warren Commission that she met them at a dinner party
not attended by her husband: "That was on the 22d of February looking
back at my calendar." There will be more on Ruth Paine's calendar a
little later in this article.
It is possible that Ruth Paine expressed interest in the Oswalds much
earlier than 1963. According to an endnote in James DiEugenio's
Destiny Betrayed, "...researcher Michael Levy has unearthed a Navy
Department document which reports that Ruth Paine was requesting
information about the family of Lee Harvey Oswald in 1957."[1] It
appears this is an area requiring additional research.
Ruth Paine's father had worked for the Agency for International
Development, an organization with "extensive" ties to the CIA,
according to researcher Philip Melanson. [1.1] Michael Paine's brother
also worked for AID. George DeMohrenschildt, alleged to have been
Oswald's intelligence "handler," also once worked for AID. [1.2]
In any case, in the months leading up to the assassination Marina
Oswald was living with Ruth Paine in the Paine home in suburban
Dallas. Like Marina and Lee, Ruth and Michael were experiencing
marital problems, and they had separated. Returning from a long trip
east in September, Ruth Paine swung by New Orleans, where the Oswalds
had lived that summer. She picked Marina up and took her home to live
with her. Michael Paine was at this time living in an apartment in
Grand Prairie, another Dallas suburb.
When Lee himself showed up in Dallas in October, Ruth Paine was
indirectly responsible for him getting a job at the Texas School Book
Depository, where of course the Warren Commission concluded all the
shots fired at the motorcade originated. She knew he was looking for
work, and heard of an opening at the Depository: "I looked up the
number in the book, and dialed it, and was told I would need to speak
to Mr. Truly, who was at the warehouse...I talked with him...and I
said I know of a young man whose wife was staying in my house, the
wife was expecting a child..."[2] Oswald got the job, of course, and a
rendezvous with destiny.
* * *
The Colleague
Cont'd
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/04th_Issue/painepix.html
One must be cautious not to jump to any conclusions when considering
the evidence that reflects poorly on Ruth and Michael Paine. There is
nothing that proves indisputably that they were involved in setting
Oswald up as the fall guy in a plot to assassinate John F. Kennedy.
But the record is filled with hints that they were not the innocent
bystanders they appeared to be--hints that were apparently ignored by
the Warren Commission, that body ostensibly empowered to investigate
everything and overlook nothing, whose only client was truth.
In the case of the Paines, as in so many other aspects of the JFK
investigation, we are confronted with strange testimony that was never
adequately explained or followed up. With all of the loose ends, which
will probably never be tied together, the Warren Commission leaves us
a legacy of doubt and shame.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1995 by John Kelin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
.John
"So, let us not be blind to our differences - but let us also direct
attention to our common interests and to the means by which those
differences can be resolved. "
--- John F. Kennedy
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