Hill & Sawyer & the 3rd-floor mystery, oh my!

[Donald Willis]

Alan Ford, "Re Paul Landis" edforum 12/6/23:

Ira Trantham, DPD; interview, HSCA 6/15/78:
"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."

Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".

Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???

Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.

dcw

[Sam McClung]

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

Seems anyone whose "best guess at the time was the TSBD" as to the source of the shots was possibly one of the conspirators running interference for the source of the intended kill shots from the north and south knolls.

Seems the probability of investigators being members of the "force" or "Klan" (per Penn Jones) was 50% of the investigators were Klan.

Applying Penn Jones' ratio to the "all four" you mention would be at least two of them were Klan. That doesn't rule out the other two possibly being sympathetic to the conspirators' cause without having to know anything about what was actually going on behind the scenes, so the other two may have looked the other way a lot.

Initial report(s) of indicators of foul activity (shells etc.) being on the 3rd floor might have been to keep investigators off the upper floors until the conspirators on the 6th floor had planted the initial evidence (Mauser rifle and shells, etc.) and vacated the area pretty much.

Personally I place full faith in the much maligned Roger Craig and believe a Mauser and 3 shells were found on the 6th floor as spelled out in Craig's detailed manuscript When They Kill A President, and would tend to think the reporting of shells being found on the 3rd floor may have been intentional false reporting to muddy the waters, as may also apply to any shells found on the 5th floor.

Maybe a third set of shells was found on the 3rd floor, the other two sets of shells I see being the 3 Mauser shells found on the 6th floor, and the 3 Carcano shells found on the 6th floor later after the frame rifles/shells were switched from Mauser to Carcano (perhaps because Oswald had left the building).

Otto Skorzeny who staged the fake death and photographing of "Hitler's" corpse in the streets of Berlin was one of the orchestrators of 11-22-63 and was very skilled at deceiving investigations.

"Somebody better take charge of this investigation." per the "High Priest of Dallas County Politics, Field Marshal Bill Decker" per Roger Craig in his manuscript. One of the definitions of field marshall is:
"An officer in some European armies, usually ranking just below the commander in chief."
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/field+marshal
Maybe Craig's use of the term was a reference to Nazis.

[NoTrueFlags Here]

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

[NoTrueFlags Here]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about. I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.

So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)

And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...

dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

Oh, and Barnett was not asked about this by the WC. No ambiguity...

[NoTrueFlags Here]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

Oh, and Barnett was not asked about this by the WC. No ambiguity...

There does seem to be a 3rd floor thing going on here. I'll have to look into it more.

[NoTrueFlags Here]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

There actually is a Patrolman W. E. Barker on the DPD force.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

There actually is a Patrolman W. E. Barker on the DPD force.

Once again, I was misled by Trask...

[NoTrueFlags Here]

Post by Donald Willis

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

There actually is a Patrolman W. E. Barker on the DPD force.

Once again, I was misled by Trask...

Maybe not. There is film of Florer's arrest. Both officers are traffic division, by their hats, and Barker is radio patrol. One of the officers is the Raincoat Cop, Denham. And the other doesn't look like Barnett to me. It's very weird. And there is an FBI document which says that "Barker" was interviewed, and that he disputed the newspaper article which you quoted. This is all very weird. And then there's Jim Braden, who was also arrested for trying to make a third floor telephone call. One wonders if it is all connected.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by Donald Willis

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

There actually is a Patrolman W. E. Barker on the DPD force.

Once again, I was misled by Trask...

Maybe not. There is film of Florer's arrest. Both officers are traffic division, by their hats, and Barker is radio patrol. One of the officers is the Raincoat Cop, Denham. And the other doesn't look like Barnett to me. It's very weird. And there is an FBI document which says that "Barker" was interviewed, and that he disputed the newspaper article which you quoted.

I trust the Trantham HSCA interview more. It pretty much confirms the Times Herald article. But, based on photos I've seen, it looks like any shot from the third floor would be stopped, or deflected, by tree branches. And the only blinds up at 12:30 are Stephen Wilson's, on the 3rd floor. But maybe it is Barker. Barnett did not, as I recall from his testimony, go into the building. At any rate, it seems that the DPD transported Sawyer, Hill, & Florer, lock stock & 2 smoking barrels (a British film-title) from the TSBD to the records building. And that Sawyer's "3rd floor" was not the 3rd floor... But the DPD did not want it even mentioned on the radio. Maybe Sawyer's transmission convinced DPD to transport Florer elsewhere. Florer in the TSBD is ambiguity, Florer in any other building, is a red heron.

dcw
This is all very weird. And then there's Jim Braden, who was also arrested for trying to make a third floor telephone call. One wonders if it is all connected.

[NoTrueFlags Here]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

Larry Florer is the only reason that Sawyer is saying "3rd floor." But Florer was on the 3rd floor in a different building. It was there that he committed the very suspicious act of trying to use a pay phone. Had to arrest him. Can't have people using pay phones and stuff.

[Donald Willis]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...
dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

Larry Florer is the only reason that Sawyer is saying "3rd floor." But Florer was on the 3rd floor in a different building. It was there that he committed the very suspicious act of trying to use a pay phone. Had to arrest him. Can't have people using pay phones and stuff.

And Sawyer & Hill were shaking down the County Records building, not the TSBD?

[Sam McClung]

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...

If you mean closed by drawn as to the blinds on the south side of 411 Elm/TSBD which photo or film are you referring to?

Sems blinds were open per various photos and films and:
"STEVEN F. WILSON, vice-president of a textbook publishing company, watched the motorcade from his corner office on the third floor of the Depository..."
from
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/V%20letter/Vale%20Grace%20P%20Mrs%2002.pdf

dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

[Sam McClung]

Post by Sam McClung

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

Post by NoTrueFlags Here

"Seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door [of the TSBD] he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they still were not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.
By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W.H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed 'acting suspiciously' on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being up there."
Very tantalizing. Especially as Sawyer about 20 minutes later said on the DPD radio that they had found shells on the "3rd floor".
Also note that Hill bumped into Sawyer at the front of the building. In his testimony, he says that he went inside with him. Trantham was with Sawyer, and Patrolman Valentine was with Hill, so it seems that all four went in at the same time. (Valentine later reported that he was "assigned to the fifth floor", so we know that he went in & up.) This grand entrance would have been about 12:50 or so, since Hill & Valentine radioed at 12:48 that they were on their way to "Elm & Houston". And this pretty much proves that Sawyer--despite testifying that he went in earlier, about 12:34, actually went into the building about 12:50. And thus may have actually been there at the discovery of the shells... on the "3rd floor". /???
Note: He said "3rd floor" on the police radio, but, for reporters, he said "5th floor". Did he mix up events on the two floors? Either one would have been bad news for the official 6th-floor version.
dcw

But, according to the rest of the Trantham interview, that was Larry Florer, whom we are told was arrested in another building.

Either he wasn't, or Sawyer & Hill covered a lot more ground than they were supposed to have. Which is, I believe, part of your scenario, at least as regards Sgt H...

My impression is that Trantham didn't know what he was talking about.

That's what I thought, at first. That he mixed up the County Rec bldg with the TSBD. But Hill & Sawyer means TSBD. Still, that was 15 years later, & memories fade. BUT: (and here things get complicated, as usual) In "Pictures of the Pain, Trask quotes a Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 story: "Patrolman W.E. Barker ["Barnett", Trask corrects, and those are his initials & Barnett was around there at that time]... Barnett "saw workers in the TSBD pecking on a window from the 3rd floor and pointing to a man wearing horn-rimmed glasses, a plaid coat, and raincoat. The officer immediately arrested the man for questioning" & took him to the sheriff's. Pretty definitely Florer. In his 11/23/63 report, Chief Deputy Sweatt speaks of the incident, too: "A DPD officer brought a boy in a sport coat up & said, 'Here is the man that had done the shooting'." !!! Rush to judgment, eh? Sweatt does not say where the officer & the arrestee came from, but he, Sweatt, was mainly taking in the TSBD in his report.
So... ??? Same-day Barnett confirms '78 Trantham. And Trantham said "prisoner", which would apply to Barnett's "arrested" man. And, yes, I know that Florer himself said "County Records building... 3rd floor", in his own 11/22/63 county affidavit. But "Hill"/"Sawyer"/"TSBD" (Trantham & Times Herald)/"3rd floor" says TSBD to me. My best educated guess is that the DPD did not want any ambiguity re the TSBD (hence nixing Sawyer's story of a man with a rifle out back of the building) and had Florer subtly transfer his story to the 3rd floor of another building. Especially as Florer was the first man suspected of killing JFK. (Bonnie Ray Williams, at the "second window from the end", was the second suspect, I believe. Again--no TSBD ambiguity was wanted.)
And Sawyer's "3rd floor" shells? All the blinds seem to have been drawn on that floor at 12:30...

If you mean closed by drawn as to the blinds on the south side of 411 Elm/TSBD which photo or film are you referring to?
"STEVEN F. WILSON, vice-president of a textbook publishing company, watched the motorcade from his corner office on the third floor of the Depository..."
from
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/V%20letter/Vale%20Grace%20P%20Mrs%2002.pdf

dcw

Post by NoTrueFlags Here
I don't think Hill was involved with any arrest in Dealey Plaza. Though, unless he's just lying, he probably did see Hill go into the building.

Don,
Please disregard my previous post. I just read your 3:40 pm post.